Oral History and News Story: Robyn Crain

Emily Hancock: I’m sitting here with Mrs. Robyn Crain. Mrs. Robyn if you could, say your name and spell it for me please.

Robyn Crain: Robyn Crain. R-O-B-Y-N C-R-A-I-N

Emily Hancock: And if you could, go ahead and explain your position…

Robyn Crain: Currently I am working as the Special Education Supervisor for the Stewart County School District in Dover, Tennessee.

Emily Hancock: And go ahead and talk about what that position entails…

Robyn Crain: Umm, well. We kind of like to say we were many hats here, so I don’t just do Special Ed. But um in my Special Ed. role, I, um, I hire effective Special Ed. certified teachers and assistants that work in the school system, um, and deliver services, individualized services to the students who require them, K-12.

Emily Hancock: So, go ahead and explain your education background. Where you went to school, where you obtained your degrees, and how long you’ve been teaching.

Robyn Crain: Ok. Um. I’m originally from Kentucky so I attended Murray State University and got my bachelor’s degree there in Elementary education. Um. I am a certified Preschool through 3^rd grade in Tennessee and in Kentucky I was certified Preschool through Fourth. But, in Tennessee they only certified me up to third. I taught third grade for nine years, um, general education and loved it. Then I, went back for my Master’s. They needed Special Education teachers at that time, so I was given the opportunity to get my Master’s and the school system helped pay for that since they were in such desperate need for Special Education teachers, so they helped pay for my Master’s at that time and I got it in Special Education and I taught Special Ed at the elementary level for several years before I went to the middle school and taught Special Education in the eighth grade and now I’m working as the supervisor.

Emily Hancock: So, go ahead and talk about, since you’re certified in both Kentucky and Tennessee, what has it been like for standardized testing in both states?

Robyn Crain: Um, well, I never taught in Kentucky, so as a student I took standardized tests every year and they were, you know, just something we did, really. I honestly don’t remember my classroom teachers putting great emphasis on standardized tests like I feel we do now. I feel like they, I mean we just, we went to school, we learned, we did fun things and all kinds of activities and field trips and then in the spring it was just something we did. The CTBS, the California Test of Basic Skills, I think was what it was called. And then when I got into Special Education in Tennessee, when I started teaching, again standardized testing wasn’t as prevalent, I guess. We didn’t feel as teachers then that we had so much pressure put on us to perform and for our students to perform like we do now.

Emily Hancock: Speaking of what it’s like to have standardized testing put on teachers, talk about what it’s like as a teacher going through standardized testing, or even as an administrator. 

Robyn Crain: As a teacher and administrator, it’s really stressful, um you, you have long lists of standards that have to be taught, that are tested, so you get a list of what is going to be tested and you try your best as a classroom teacher to cover those standards as thoroughly as you can. It’s hard to always get those standards covered the way you want them to be and for your students to learn them like you want them to. They don’t always master skills as quickly as you would like them to, so you end up having to send more time on certain standards and it, it puts you behind. In the wintertime, we’re always fighting snow and flu and so if you miss two days in a week, then you’re having to redo your lesson plans and start all over again and hey’ve forgotten everything you’ve taught them two days ago. So, um, it’s a lot of pressure and you feel. You feel great stress to perform and for your students to be proficient, there’s a lot of emphasis put on that with the state department with your district administration. It’s, it’s a lot of pressure for teachers and for students because I feel like teachers now, that’s that’s all that’s talked about all year. ‘This is gonna be on the test.’ ‘This is gonna be on the test.’ ‘You’ve got to know this.’ You know. So, it’s, um, it’s pretty stressful.

Emily Hancock: Talk about, what are the pros? Do you see many pros or many cons of standardized testing?

Robyn Crain: The pros of standardized testing, um. I would say that it would probably be the, the higher expectations that we have now that we hold for students because it seems like from when I was in school way back when, um, you know we didn’t learn the things that they’re learning now. They’re learning things that I learned in sixth grade in third grade. You know, it seems like everything’s been pushed back to younger and younger it seems like they’re learning more and more and so I feel like we do have higher expectations for our students. So, I think that’s a pro, um, I feel like it holds teachers accountable. As sad as it is to say you have very effective teachers, but you’re always going to have one or two that are not, and you know, some just like with any job, you have some that work extremely hard and put everything into it 110% and then you have those who just show up for a paycheck. This kind of holds teachers accountable and responsible for what students are learning. So that’s another pro.

Emily Hancock: So, talk about the negatives about it. Like you mentioned to me earlier how some of the stuff you learned in school back when you were a student is not what you are teaching today. Or not what the kids are learning today.

Robyn Crain: Well, a con I kind of feel like, school’s not as fun anymore. You know? I feel like, um, when I was in school I loved school! I wanted to go to school because there was always something interesting or fun going on in the classroom or something we were doing that day as a school that was, you know, it wasn’t just about sitting in the classroom and learning all of these standards and preparing for a test. You know, it just seemed like we learned more about life, about friendships, and socialization and um, in addition to all the things we had to know. I feel like we turned out ok! You know, my generation turned out ok! Um. But, I don’t know. I feel like teachers don’t get to teach those things now. It’s strictly ‘prepare for the test,’ ‘prepare for the test’ because their jobs are on the line. If your students don’t perform for several years in a row, you’re in danger of losing your job.

Emily Hancock: Have you seen cases like that where, you know, you have teachers who it reflects on them if their students don’t do well?

Robyn Crain: Well, yes. It reflects on the classroom teacher if their students don’t do well. And I have seen cases like that, and that’s, that’s a hard conversation to have with a teacher when they’re students are not performing well, um, especially in a small town like this when you know everybody, you go to church with these people and the last thing you want to do is tell them they’re not effective. So, we have to as administrators, we have to develop a plan to help them improve. And so, we do that. We sit down with them and we talk about things that they can do to improve their classroom instruction and management, sometimes, um, and we’ve, you know, we’ve called outside agencies in too. To come in and just to have an outside objective look at the classroom situation and to help with that aspect.

Emily Hancock: How do you think it effects the students? Do you notice the different emotions of a student when it comes to like TCAP or all these standardized tests? Like how do they feel?

Robyn Crain: I do, this is the sad part and especially with my position as a Special Ed. supervisor, my kids struggle the most. And so, this time of year is the worst time of year for them because a lot of what you see going on in every classroom is review and its practice test, practice test, practice test. Review this standard, review that standard. You know, a lot of my kids have learning disabilities so what they learn one day, they’ll come to school the next and they don’t remember. You have to reteach it over and over. It’s constant, constant, constant. So, testing for them, causes a lot of anxiety for them. But not just for my Special Ed. kids, but for regular education students as well. They want to do well, and they know there’s a lot riding on this test, so.

Emily Hancock: I know you travel quite a bit with you job. Do you hear much about standardized testing outside of our county, outside of Stewart County?

Robyn Crain: (laughs) Yes! Every time I go to a convention or a conference or something with other Special Ed. supervisors or principals, administrators, we all have the same complaint, there’s too much testing. There’s too much emphasis on testing, um, the money being spent on testing is unbelievable. I know it’s a great way to track student progress, it’s a great way to collect data on learning from year to year. You can track kids and you can take little Suzie and how she tested in first and second grade and you can pretty much track her and know what she’s going to do when she graduates from high school, which is crazy. Um. But it’s just, I don’t know, I feel like we’ve taken so much out of the personal aspect of education that it’s not personal anymore. It’s standardized.

Emily Hancock: In traveling, do you see where other counties or parts of Tennessee struggle more than others? For instance, does west Tennessee struggle more than middle Tennessee or East Tennessee?

Robyn Crain: Umm. There are school systems all across the state, some who always perform well. Williamson county is one of those in Tennessee. They always perform well, and a lot of that is because, you have to look at demographics. They have, I won’t say a very wealthy demographic, but it’s you know. Tennessee is not a wealthy state, as a whole. And so, it Stewart County we have a large population of free and reduced lunch kiddos. Williamson County doesn’t have that, so systems like will always outperform systems like ours, but I will say that, out of 131 counties, Stewart County is up there in the top 10-15.

Emily Hancock: I know your kind of more the elementary/middle, but what about the high school? What about their testing?

Robyn Crain: Well, the high school, and this is kind of been worrisome for me because the high school takes end-of-course exams as their standardized tests aside from the TCAP tests that the elementary and the middle school take. They take EOC exams in English, Algebra, Geometry, Chemistry, Biology. Um, and you have to pass those to pass the course. And I get that, I understand that, but what bothers me is that they’re teaching standards for the end-of-course exam, and what do they look at when you go to college? ACT. ACT is not the focus and the two tests are nothing alike. Nothing alike. So, in addition to end-of-course preparation, you have to have ACT prep courses. So, it’s test, test, test. You know? It’s a lot. 

Emily Hancock: Do you think that doubles the stress for high school teachers and high school students?

Robyn Crain: I think it puts a lot of pressure on your tested subjects, like your English, you Math, your Biology, your sciences. Um. It does put a lot of pressure on those teachers because like I said, they have to pass those tests to get the credit in the class, and if you don’t get the credit in the class, you don’t graduate. So, um, there is a great deal of pressure put on them for that. Plus, when the kids take the ACT the school as a whole is being looked at as far as the ACT scores are concerned. So, if the kids don’t do well in ACT it makes the whole school look bad.

Emily Hancock: Where do you think the future of standardized testing lies? Where do you see it in 5 years? 10 years?

Robyn Crain: You want to know where I wish…?? (laughs) I wish it would go away! No not completely go away, I just wish that they didn’t put… there wouldn’t be as much emphasis on it, is what I wish. But I don’t ever see that ever going away because they’re always going… it’s always been big competition between states. Even with countries and there’s so much push to compare us with everyone else, you know? And I think, and I don’t know this for certain, but I don’t think there is another country that tests 100% of their population. We do. We test 100% of our students. I think most countries test their top 10%, that are college bound. You know, they don’t test everyone, well we test all of our Special Ed. kids even, even my CDC kiddos that are, are in the comprehensive development class. They take alternate assessments, which are unbelievable too. So, it’s a lot of testing.

Emily Hancock: So, everybody gets tested?

Robyn Crain: Everybody gets tested.

Emily Hancock: What about the difference between different states? Like Tennessee and Kentucky? Or Tennessee and Alabama? What are the comparisons of Tennessee to other states?

Robyn Crain: Now as far as out performance goes? Is that what you’re asking?

Emily Hancock: Mmhmm.

Robyn Crain: I don’t think that Tennessee performs well nationally on standardized tests. Now the, um, oh what was that test called that they took? The NAPE? Tennessee had the largest growth of any state in the country two years ago. It was massive how much we improved on the NAPE tests. But again, they don’t test everyone on the NAPE. So, had they given the NAPE on some of my Special Ed. kids that year, they probably wouldn’t… (unfinished thought) You know what I’m saying? It’s influenced by who takes the test. So, um, it’s one picture. That’s what I don’t like about standardized tests. It’s one picture, it’s one day. Anybody can have a bad day, anybody can have a great day. You know? I don’t think it’s a true picture.

Emily Hancock: What is it like, um, I know you said earlier that spring is hard because this is where all the standardized testing comes around. What is it like after standardized testing?

Robyn Crain: (laughs) Well, now that they’ve moved… (unfinished thought) I remember when I was teaching third grade, and we took out state testing in March. So, we had April and May left. Well that’s when we would take field trips and do all the fun things that we didn’t get to do throughout the year. So, we always loved it when standardized testing was over because we felt like this huuggee weight was lifted off our shoulders and we could do the fun stuff for a change, you know. All the projects in the classroom that you didn’t get to do in science and art projects and you know, all that stuff. Um. Now, standardized testing is in late April and early May. For the high school it’s early May is end-of-course, so you’ve only got a couple of weeks left. It’s like you have two weeks and probably in those two weeks there’s not a lot of learning going on, I’m sure. I’m sure they’re just kind of, you know, trying to catch their breath from all the intense review they’ve been doing prior to that. So.

Emily Hancock: So, all the younger kids, say Kindergarten through third grade, how do you explain to them what they’re doing?

Robyn Crain: It’s really, really sad to me that we test at such an early age. To me, Kindergarten, first-and second-graders have no business taking standardized tests. To me, those are your foundation years. That’s where you build the strong foundation in reading, in basic math skills, basic English skills, all of those strong foundational skills that will help you later. I just feel like we need to spend those years really hounding those in and getting a good solid foundation for those kids before we start testing them, but that’s not what we’re doing and no, you’re right they don’t know. They don’t understand, but that puts a lot of pressure on the teachers too because those test scores are evaluated just like everyone else’s. So, and Kindergarteners, (laughs) especially they don’t even know how to bubble! You know what I mean, it’s just, it’s so sad. It’s really sad! I just hate that those little babies have to do that.

Emily Hancock: So what about, at that same age group, what rewards are there after standardized testing? Are there rewards?

Robyn Crain: Yes, yes they do. Because there is so much emphasis put on testing and performance and teacher evaluations are tied to it, they have really tried to motive the kids to take their time and do their best because you have kids who will always try their best and work hard, but you have those few that will just bubble. They’ll just go in a guess through the whole test and then they’re done in five minutes. And so, they do set up an award system, they do actually, um, spend a great deal of money that’s donated by the parent-teacher organizations and businesses in town and they will, each school, will go and buy huge prizes, I’m talking about bicycles and iPads and all kinds of stuff, you know that are age appropriate and they, um, every kid gets a ticket each day if they took their time on their test and used up all their time and whatever else their criteria is, they get their name on a ticket and they put it in a box and they draw at the end of the week and hand out prizes. So.

Emily Hancock: And how long does standardized testing usually take? Like is it two days? Three days? A week?

Robyn Crain: It’s a week. U-huhh. And then we do makeups. We have like two or three days of makeups, but your tests have to be boxed up and mailed out by the second Friday of testing. So, you actually get a two-week window. So, in that two-week window you have to schedule your tests for one week, so you allow time for makeups for those that miss or, cause you know, we don’t want to leave anyone untested.

Emily Hancock: Are there any other last-minute comments that you would like to add regarding standardized testing?

Robyn Crain: No, just that standardized testing is, just like everything else, you get the good with the bad. It does have some good aspects, but it has some bad too. I don’t ever see it going away. So, um, we just have to embrace it. Do the best we can with it and move on. It’s what we do. Teach kids!

Emily Hancock: Perfect! Well, thanks so much, Mrs. Robyn for helping me out with this project. I really do appreciate it!

Robyn Crain: You’re so welcome!

The Slopes of Standardized Testing

By Emily Hancock

Many years ago, the idea of testing children’s intelligence through a procedure known as standardized testing was introduced to school children everywhere. The purpose of these tests was to evaluate the children’s progress throughout the school year all while reflecting on the teachers’ instruction throughout the same school year.

The creation of standardized tests back in the day were different than they are today; especially considering the evolving changes through education. Some changes can create large obstacles for each and every school system such as updated curriculums which produces stressful measures on instructors to teach all material that is told students will be tested on.

In return, this puts strain on the students. Therefore, how do you explain standardized testing to student of all ages? What about kindergarteners?

How about explaining to high schoolers the importance of both end-of-course exams and the ACT? What effects does standardized testing have on special education students?

Robyn Crain, Special Education Supervisor in Stewart County, Tennessee, says emotions rise when talking about standardized testing in special education classrooms.

“This is the sad part. In my position, my students struggle the most. This time of year is the worst time of year for them because a lot of what you see in every classroom is review and it’s practice test, practice test, and review this standard, review that standard.” Crain says “Well a lot of my kids have learning disabilities so what they learn one day, they’ll come to school the next and they don’t remember.”

At that point, instructors then have to teach those students continuously and compulsively over and over when time is already of the essence.

“Testing for them causes a lot of anxiety for them.” said Crain. “[at the same time] They want to do well. They know a lot is riding on this test.”

She is also quick to point out that the stronghold of standardized testing is not only hard for them, but for other students, faculty, and administrators as well. Crain travels within her position meeting with other counties’ administrators from all across the state. When asked if other counties discuss the abrupt intervention of today’s standardized testing, she responded with excitement.

“Yes!” Crain said. “Every time I go to a convention or a conference or something with other special education supervisors or principals, administrators, etc. we all have the same complaint. There’s too much testing. There’s too much emphasis on testing.”

Aside from the effects of standardized testing in both instructors and students, the financial aspect of the testing is what is mindboggling to many. Crain emphasizes how she understands it’s a great way to track student progress and collect data but has become an issue financially.

Crain taught third grade general education for nine years in the state of Tennessee. She also currently works in Tennessee but reflects on her time when she was a student in Henderson, Kentucky and how standardized testing affected her.

“School is not as fun anymore, you know? When I was in school, I wanted to go to school. There was also something interesting or fun going on in the classroom or something we were doing that day, it wasn’t about just sitting in the classroom and learning all of the standards and all of these tests.” said Crain.

She also points out that she can’t remember teachers putting as much emphasis on testing as they do now.

Crain, although skeptical when stating, remarks how she doesn’t know of any other country who tests as much as the United States does. The United States tests each and every student enrolled in school. Some states are more different than others in teaching, reviewing, and conducting standardized tests, but one things stands for certain: each student must be tested, boxed, and sent away from each school.

“I don’t think that Tennessee performs well nationally on standardized tests… It’s influenced on who takes the test. It’s one picture, one day. Anybody can have a good day, anybody can have a bad day. I don’t think it’s a true picture.” Crain said.

Standardized testing has become one of the largest reflectors on each student, each teacher, and each school district. There are many variables in which are at play and can be seen as either a positive or a negative. One negative review or a score can have a diminishing effect on an instructors’ job, especially if the negative reviews show up consecutively.

“It reflects on the classroom teacher if their students don’t do well. I have seen cases like that, and that’s a hard conversation to have with a teacher when their students are not performing well,” said Crain. “Especially in a small town like [Stewart County] where you know everybody, you go to church with these people and the last thing you want to do is tell them they’re not effective.”

When reaching this point, Crain discussed how administrators, therefore have to develop a plan in how to address these certain issues and how to create a game plan in order to resolve the issue. Even if the situation calls for bringing in more experienced professionals to assist and resolve the issue. Standardized testing has surely created a vast amount of coverage over the United States in the last couple of decades.

“It’s sad to me that we test at such an early age. To me, kindergarten, first- and second- graders have no business taking standardized tests.” Crain said. “To me, those are your foundation years — that’s where you build the foundation in basic reading, basic math, basic English skills.”

Crain said with everything you get the good with the bad.

“[Standardized testing] does have some good aspects, but it has some bad, too. I don’t ever see it going away.” Crain said. “So, we’ll just have to embrace it and do the best we can with it and move on.”