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Oral History and News Story: Stephanie Graff
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Destinee Marking
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Academic performance disparities have been at the forefront of educator’s minds since before the nationwide focus on standardized testing.
Stephanie Graff, chief accountability officer at the Minnesota Department of Education, said educators took notice to what is referred to now as the “achievement gap” before the introduction of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001.
“Educators have always known, I believe, that all kids come with different assets, different home life, different background and perspective and needs and challenges and barriers,” Graff said. “So I think those that have been closest to the children have really understood that there are gaps that we as educators have been trying to focus on and address for quite some time.”
However, Graff said the No Child Left Behind Act may be responsible for bringing academic disparities to light and allowing a conversation to be started. Demographics Nearly 900,000 students are enrolled in pre-K through 12th grade at Minnesota public and charter schools, and Graff said about two-thirds of these students are white, while about one-third identify as Asian, Hawaiian Pacific Islander, African American, Hispanic or multiracial.
Additionally, 2 percent of students identify as American Indian. Another demographic to look at, Graff said, is English-learner students, which is 8 percent of students.
“This is has been the fastest growing student population in the state of Minnesota,” she said.
Graff also said it is important to note the amount of students receiving free and reduced-price lunches.
“About 37 percent of our students are students from low-income families and the proxy that we use for that, for our socioeconomic status, is really free and reduced-price lunch… they are meeting a certain family income threshold,” Graff said.
One percent of these students, she said, are even experiencing homelessness.
“You can imagine those students come with their own assets and perspectives and needs and challenges and barriers to learning, and so, it’s important to not forget, it’s just one percent, but it’s one percent too many, and really as educators, we’re really thinking about what we can do to meet the needs of our students that experience homelessness every single day,” Graff said.
Looking beyond test scores The results of standardized tests, Graff said, do show disparities exist.
“The academic disparities have existed for some time and they’re persistent,” Graff said. “It’s something we grapple with as educators in the system every single day, so disparities between and among student groups certainly are there, and gaps are certainly there.”
For example, Graff said Hispanic students in Minnesota are at 39 percent proficient in reading, while white students are at 68 percent proficient. Full test results can be found in the Minnesota Report Card provided by the Minnesota Department of Education. Although test scores are important to analyze, Graff also said it is important to consider other aspects of students’ lives.
“When we look at test results, I think it’s really, really important, and this is something that is a bit of a paradigm kind of shift in a way because sometimes we get, in education, so hung up on test results, and on that one summative assessment that one students takes on one day that, again it’s standardized for all kids across the state, and we’re really trying to think about not just achievement gaps, but opportunity gaps,” Graff said. “So what kind of access and opportunities do kids have to be successful in their learning?”
Efforts to close the gaps
When it comes to closing opportunity gaps and making sure that every child has access to a “high quality, rigorous and engaging education,” Graff said it is adults that have the ability to make that happen or not. In short, she said adults can be held accountable for the achievement gap we see today.
“We don’t blame families, we don’t blame children,” Graff said.
During one of his final speeches Dec. 20, 2017, former Minnesota Sen. Al Franken spoke about the importance of working together to provide quality education to all.
“Education from pre-K through college, and beyond, is essential in providing our economy with a skilled workforce that is ready to innovate and lead us into the future,” Franken said. “Of course education isn’t just about our economy; it’s about the most basic responsibility we have as human beings.”
He said education is what allows children to achieve their dreams.
“We all want a country where every child, every child, has the opportunity to fulfill his or her God-given potential, and we all understand that whether we can provide every child with a great education is the most basic measure of whether we’re keeping that promise,” Franken said.
By 2025, Graff said the goal in Minnesota is to have 85 percent of students reaching proficiency, so she explained multiple strategies that are in place to reach that goal. She said one effort to improve student success is, what the Minnesota Department of Education and stakeholders refer to as, “commitments to equity.”
“I really, really believe that equity-focused leadership and equity-focused action are going to drive change in the system as long as we have them at all levels and as long as it is intentional,” Graff said.
Another strategy she emphasized is providing support for education leaders and teachers.
“Making sure that every single child has a really great teacher in front of them, I feel like is just critical to moving toward closing these disparities,” Graff said.
Finally, she said empowering community members and others outside of the education system can help garner solutions.
“The answers and the best solutions for kids are really going to come when we all roll up our sleeves and come to the table and have all hands on deck and include the voices that are not always a part of the conversation,” Graff said.
Stephanie Graff, chief accountability officer at the Minnesota Department of Education, said educators took notice to what is referred to now as the “achievement gap” before the introduction of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001.
“Educators have always known, I believe, that all kids come with different assets, different home life, different background and perspective and needs and challenges and barriers,” Graff said. “So I think those that have been closest to the children have really understood that there are gaps that we as educators have been trying to focus on and address for quite some time.”
However, Graff said the No Child Left Behind Act may be responsible for bringing academic disparities to light and allowing a conversation to be started. Demographics Nearly 900,000 students are enrolled in pre-K through 12th grade at Minnesota public and charter schools, and Graff said about two-thirds of these students are white, while about one-third identify as Asian, Hawaiian Pacific Islander, African American, Hispanic or multiracial.
Additionally, 2 percent of students identify as American Indian. Another demographic to look at, Graff said, is English-learner students, which is 8 percent of students.
“This is has been the fastest growing student population in the state of Minnesota,” she said.
Graff also said it is important to note the amount of students receiving free and reduced-price lunches.
“About 37 percent of our students are students from low-income families and the proxy that we use for that, for our socioeconomic status, is really free and reduced-price lunch… they are meeting a certain family income threshold,” Graff said.
One percent of these students, she said, are even experiencing homelessness.
“You can imagine those students come with their own assets and perspectives and needs and challenges and barriers to learning, and so, it’s important to not forget, it’s just one percent, but it’s one percent too many, and really as educators, we’re really thinking about what we can do to meet the needs of our students that experience homelessness every single day,” Graff said.
Looking beyond test scores The results of standardized tests, Graff said, do show disparities exist.
“The academic disparities have existed for some time and they’re persistent,” Graff said. “It’s something we grapple with as educators in the system every single day, so disparities between and among student groups certainly are there, and gaps are certainly there.”
For example, Graff said Hispanic students in Minnesota are at 39 percent proficient in reading, while white students are at 68 percent proficient. Full test results can be found in the Minnesota Report Card provided by the Minnesota Department of Education. Although test scores are important to analyze, Graff also said it is important to consider other aspects of students’ lives.
“When we look at test results, I think it’s really, really important, and this is something that is a bit of a paradigm kind of shift in a way because sometimes we get, in education, so hung up on test results, and on that one summative assessment that one students takes on one day that, again it’s standardized for all kids across the state, and we’re really trying to think about not just achievement gaps, but opportunity gaps,” Graff said. “So what kind of access and opportunities do kids have to be successful in their learning?”
Efforts to close the gaps
When it comes to closing opportunity gaps and making sure that every child has access to a “high quality, rigorous and engaging education,” Graff said it is adults that have the ability to make that happen or not. In short, she said adults can be held accountable for the achievement gap we see today.
“We don’t blame families, we don’t blame children,” Graff said.
During one of his final speeches Dec. 20, 2017, former Minnesota Sen. Al Franken spoke about the importance of working together to provide quality education to all.
“Education from pre-K through college, and beyond, is essential in providing our economy with a skilled workforce that is ready to innovate and lead us into the future,” Franken said. “Of course education isn’t just about our economy; it’s about the most basic responsibility we have as human beings.”
He said education is what allows children to achieve their dreams.
“We all want a country where every child, every child, has the opportunity to fulfill his or her God-given potential, and we all understand that whether we can provide every child with a great education is the most basic measure of whether we’re keeping that promise,” Franken said.
By 2025, Graff said the goal in Minnesota is to have 85 percent of students reaching proficiency, so she explained multiple strategies that are in place to reach that goal. She said one effort to improve student success is, what the Minnesota Department of Education and stakeholders refer to as, “commitments to equity.”
“I really, really believe that equity-focused leadership and equity-focused action are going to drive change in the system as long as we have them at all levels and as long as it is intentional,” Graff said.
Another strategy she emphasized is providing support for education leaders and teachers.
“Making sure that every single child has a really great teacher in front of them, I feel like is just critical to moving toward closing these disparities,” Graff said.
Finally, she said empowering community members and others outside of the education system can help garner solutions.
“The answers and the best solutions for kids are really going to come when we all roll up our sleeves and come to the table and have all hands on deck and include the voices that are not always a part of the conversation,” Graff said.
Original Format
The audio file to this oral history interview can be accessed at this link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_QOfvtWekv15EYXRZJ4WQmxpOX6Z5NFq/view?usp=sharing
Transcript:
Destinee Marking (DM): This is Destinee Marking. The date is Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2018, and the topic is public education before the stronghold of standardized testing, with a specific focus on the “achievement gap”. My interviewee is Stephanie Graff. Ms. Graff, do I have your permission to conduct this interview?
Stephanie Graff (SG): Yes.
DM: All right. So first of all, I want to ask, you are the chief accountability officer at the Minnesota Department of Education. So could you briefly explain what that means and what you do? SG: Absolutely. Thanks for the opportunity to share with you a little bit about myself and some of my thoughts. So yes, I’m the chief accountability officer here at the Minnesota Department of Education. What I do is I, I work closely with a few different areas from a federal standpoint and a state standpoint. I lead and oversee our state and federal accountability system through the Every Student Succeeds Act, which is federal law, and the World’s Best Workforce, which is state law around strategic planning and accountability. I provide, along with a team, support to districts and charter schools across the state on their World’s Best Workforce efforts and their strategic plans and their goals and stakeholder work and engagement and tracking progress toward those goals and a lot of the initiatives and strategies they have in place to close achievement and opportunity gaps and ensure all students are career and college ready. And then, I also oversee more closely with a program in Minnesota called the Achievement and Integration Program, which is a substantial fiscal resource, as well as a really great program in the state that’s been around for a number of years providing resources and support and programming focused on closing academic disparities and focused on creating integrated learning environments for students so that students with different ethnicities and races and different perspectives and backgrounds and socioeconomic statuses and english-learner statuses are collaborating, building relationships and having an opportunity to learn in an integrated environment, so that’s what I do here at the agency. All of it is really under the broad umbrella that’s focused on equity, focused on closing opportunity and achievement gaps and supporting leaders on all levels of the system and stakeholders and community groups and coming together and tackling some of these persistent challenges that we have, to meet the needs of kids.
DM: Awesome. That’s really interesting. Moving on to kind of talking about the achievement gap then, could you describe, first of all, the makeup of Minnesota public schools, or like just in general, the ratio of white to non-white students or English speakers to non-English..?
SG: Yes. Yes, absolutely. So in the state of Minnesota, a state with, oh I think, about a little over 5 million people, we have a little under a million, I think about 900,000 students in pre-K through grade 12 enrolled in public school and charter school in the state of Minnesota, so about 900,000 kids. At this point, in 2018, about two-thirds of our students that we serve in our public education system are white, and about one-third of students are students that identify as students of color or American Indian students. And so, about a third are students that identify as Asian students, as Hawaiian Pacific Islander students, as our African American students, as our Hispanic students or our students that identify as multiracial, right, and so students that would kind of categorize or identify themselves as two or more races. And then, about two percent of our students are actually American Indian students, which we don’t often times lump into our students of color group, based on what we’ve heard from our native populations in the state. So about two percent of our students are native students across the state of Minnesota and really, really have some interesting opportunities to meet the cultural and academic needs of those students as well. So about two-thirds white, about one-third students of color/American Indian students in 2018. Eight percent of our students are English learners and this is has been the fastest growing student population in the state of Minnesota. So about 92 percent of our students come from native English-speaking families. Sixteen percent of our students are students with disabilities, or a little less than 16 percent. So about 85 percent of our students are those that are not a student with a disability. That number has remained fairly stable over time. About 37 percent of our students are students from low-income families and the proxy that we use for that, for our socioeconomic status is really free and reduced-price lunch, so the student is eligible for free or reduced-price lunch, they are meeting a certain family income threshold, and included in that 37 percent of students from low-income families. And about one percent, and we’re really, really excited to be providing a bit more focus and really thinking collectively about strategies for this student population, but one percent of our students are actually students that are experiencing homelessness. You can imagine those students come with their own assets and perspectives and needs and challenges and barriers to learning, and so, it’s important to not forget, it’s just one percent, but it’s one percent too many, and really as educators, we’re really thinking about what we can do to meet the needs of our students that experience homelessness every single day.
DM: For sure, yeah. What do the scores of standardized tests show then when it comes to looking at the results for different demographics of students?
SG: Yeah, well, certainly we know that disparities exist. The academic disparities have existed for some time and they’re persistent. It’s something we grapple with as educators in the system every single day, so disparities between and among student groups certainly are there, and gaps are certainly there. When we look at test results, right, I think it’s really, really important, and this is something that is a bit of a paradigm kind of shift in a way because sometimes we get, in education, so hung up on test results, and on that one summative assessment that one students takes on one day that, again it’s standardized for all kids across the state, and we’re really trying to think about not just achievement gaps, but opportunity gaps. So what kind of access and opportunities to kids have do be successful in their learning? So how can we place test results in a broader context and look at a variety of other data that I’d be happy to get to in this conversation as well. But certainly, I could rattle off some numbers, but certainly we look at reading. Our Hispanic students are at 39 percent proficient, our white students are at 68 percent proficient. When we look at math, our black students at a little over 30 percent proficient in math, our white students are at about 56 percent proficient in math. So certainly we know that there are gaps. We know that there are disparities we’re working to address. Something else I would add here is what we’ve really heard from community members and educators across the state consistently is really the need to think about results, and particularly standardized test results, in that we’re placing a high expectation and a high bar for all students and every single student group, so we’re not always just comparing, like I just compared, for example, Hispanic students’ and white students’ performance, right, but instead what people in Minnesota are really interested in is setting a high bar, a high goal for all; we’ve done that; it’s 85 percent of students proficient is our goal by the year 2025, and saying ‘Where are white students in making progress toward that goal? OK, we have a way to go. White students have to grow.’ and ‘Where are Hispanic students in making progress toward that goal?’ And we know Hispanic students have to grow, and there’s room for improvement. And black students, how much do they have to grow and progress and improve? And our Asian population, right, then our English learners, so really thinking about setting a high bar, high expectation, having high goals for all. We know our white students are not where they need to be in the state. They’re our highest performing, but they’re not the bar, they’re not the benchmark. And we know they need to grow and improve as well. So we have heard from our communities of color in particular saying all student groups should have a high expectation, and we want to look at improvement for all. We don’t want lower expectation to be the white student group. So we talk often about disparities between groups, but I think it’s important to place our successes and our progress and our improvement as an education system and really benchmark that using ambitious, rigorous, high goals for every single student and every single student group.
DM: Sure. When did we really start paying attention to these disparities, or like you’re saying, just students in general not meeting that high mark?
SG: Yeah. I mean I think it’s been at the forefront in minds of educators for a very long time. Probably long before, or definitely long before we were measuring them using statewide standardized accountability assessments. Educators have always known, I believe, that all kids come with different assets, different home life, different background and perspective and needs and challenges and barriers, and so I think those that have been closest to the children have really understood that there are gaps that we as educators have been trying to focus on and address for quite some time. I do think the last 10-15 years or so, probably since the No Child Left Behind Act, what was probably a bit of an impetus or there was just the window of opportunity for this conversation to just be more known probably and more understood. And a part of that is probably because demographics have shifted, so earlier in our conversation, I rattled off some of the current demographics in Minnesota, but those have shifted quite a bit in the last 10 or 15 years. Particularly our growth in our immigrant population. Our English learner students in the state and our students of color that our communities of color are growing in general, so I do think that last 10 or 15 years, the demographics have changed and with sort of this focus on civil rights and equity within the Elementary and Secondary Education Act at the federal level that became the No Child Left Behind Act in 2001, there has been more of an emphasis on people focusing and paying attention on achievement gaps. And I want to add to that, I think we’re getting to the point of including opportunity gaps and access gaps as well in that conversation, so I think now more than ever we’re seeing advocacy groups, I think we’re seeing community organizations, I think we’re seeing policymakers now more than ever really focused on opportunity and achievement gaps. I also think we’re seeing this placed in a broader conversation really with a spotlight on how achievement gaps and educational outcomes go hand in hand with housing access and outcomes, with healthcare access and outcomes, with human services and social services access and outcomes. So that’s really, I think, important too to contextualize this conversation around opportunity and achievement gaps and our education system and really understand the interconnectedness with other types of supports and services that we provide in government. So yeah, I think it’s been around with educator quite a while, but I think it’s risen to the surface in sort of a household conversation and a policymaking conversation more recently in the last 15 years or so.
DM: Sure. And then looking at these gaps over the last couple years, are there certain groups that are closing them, and on the other hand, are there certain gaps that are worsening?
SG: I think that honestly it really, it depends on which area and which group you’re looking at, so it’s hard to just kind of make a blanket statement around that. Certainly we’ve seen many pockets of successes in different areas, different groups. We actually just, six weeks ago on Aug. 30, we released a list of 524 schools in the state that are recognized for success on a variety of indicators, including math and reading test results, consistent attendance, progress for English learners, and as a part of this, we’re really, really able to shine a bright light on where we’re seeing successes for different student groups and where we’re seeing actual disparities close. So at the statewide level, it’s hard to get into some of the nuance and the need for kind of a contextualized conversation about what are the successes and why, really getting to that why piece because in order to see this at a larger scale across the state or across the country, what we really need to do is shine a bright light on where it’s working and then think about how do we scale up and replicate and share practices across district lines. So 29 schools, we’re excited about all of these schools in different ways, but 29 schools in particular were recognized for success in getting really phenomenal progress for English learners and really focus on closing disparities just for English learners and making sure that English learners are making progress in mastering the English language. We’re really focused on learning from these schools and where there are those pockets. Certainly, as I had mentioned, gaps persist; they stick around. In some areas, we’re addressing where disparities are actually widening, and as I’ve mentioned, in a lot of areas we’re celebrating and learning from where those disparities are actually closing.
DM: And you’ve touched on this a little bit over the last couple minutes, but what are some current efforts to improve this issue?
SG: There’s a lot. So I actually would start with- we put together, along with stakeholders over the last two and a half years or so, what we’re calling “commitments to equity.” I really, really believe that equity-focused leadership and equity-focused action are going to drive change in the system as long as we have them at all levels and as long as it is intentional. So I would start with just a simple, not simple I guess, just with a focus and a commitment to equity, and setting and prioritizing equity and setting and communicating that vision as loud and as often as possible and making sure that we’re setting high targets and high outcomes for all students. This goes back to my comments earlier about making sure we’re setting a high bar for every single student group. So I would start with just prioritizing equity. Then I would touch on a few other areas. One, focusing on leaders and building the skills and mindsets and capacity for leaders to lead really complex education systems that are inclusive, that are culturally appropriate and that empower and give educators at all levels of the system the development and support they need. So really focusing on leadership, I think is so critical. And then getting into making sure every child has an excellent teacher, so where are we, thinking about other data beyond test scores, where are we seeing gaps in which students have the same access to experienced teachers that are teaching within their licensure that are deemed effective when we look at evaluation and development results. So making sure that every single child has a really great teacher in front of them, I feel like is just critical to moving toward closing these disparities. We have some efforts in that area for sure. Something we really focus on too is empowering communities as partners and bringing families to the table, community partners to the table to really help come up with solutions, and making sure that people feel welcome and a part of decision making as that the answers don’t lie just within the K12 education system, but the answers and the best solutions for kids are really going to come when we all roll up our sleeves and come to the table and have all hands on deck and include the voices that are not always a part of the conversation, and that includes a variety of stakeholders, but I would just call out, because I think it’s important, includes tribes to support our native students and American Indian families as well are some that have been historically left out of the conversation, so really being intentionally about bringing those right people to the table. Certainly allocation of resources is a huge equity issue- making sure that our underserved students are getting the resources and support that they need, and sometimes reallocating resources and making sure that those kids that need that help the most are getting it and the funding follows where the gaps are. The last I would probably add, and I could go on with a lot of the strategies that we have focused on, but another we have really focused on is culture and climate in schools. So we talk a lot about the academic needs of kids, and we talk a lot about the math skills and the literacy skills at a young age and the career and college readiness programming and courses and all of the really good academic work, but there’s also a lot of work on our end being done around culture and climate and kind of the conditions for learning. In particular, the social emotional needs of kids now more than ever and building up social emotional skills for those students to be ready to learn and able to learn and most successful in their educational experience. So I would also callout that we have a whole division here focused on conditions for learning and creating safe and engaging learning environments for kids. Those are a few of the strategies that we focus on and will continue to focus on here at the agency in our support for schools and districts and families and communities.
DM: Lastly, since a lot of people I’m in class with are probably going to be doing their projects based out of Kentucky, I was wondering if you could answer how does Minnesota compare to the rest of the country when it comes to standardized test scores or opportunity and achievement gaps?
SG: I wish I had the data in front of me. I will say, we are often times top in the nation when it comes to ACT, the NAEP, which is the National Assessment for Educational Progress, and graduation rates when we look overall at all students, and definitely when we look at our white students. Where we lag is with our American Indian population and our black students in particular, and we’ve made some improvement on sort of national ratings and things in recent years, particularly on the NAEP, but certainly, we have very, very high performers in the state of Minnesota, and we have to really remember to not hang our hat on our more affluent white students, because they really do outperform the nation, because we have other students that, while they’re showing improvement and progressing, they’re, in some areas, we’re not even middle of the pack looking across state lines. So certainly work to do, but I don’t have the numbers in front of me, I wish I did on ACT and NAEP and graduation rates were fairly high as well when we look across state lines.
DM: Well those are all the questions I had planned, but if you have anything else you’d like to add, I’m sure you have stuff I didn’t touch on, so you can go ahead and bring anything up that you’d like to.
SG: I don’t know. I feel like these were all good questions. I will say there was one question that you had passed along and I have like a succinct kind of response to it, but it was who kind of or what can be held accountable for the achievement gap. I kind of liked that one and in my head was kind of, I don’t have a long answer, but I just think it’s important to say, adults and not kids. I think adults are the ones that are responsible and accountable for the disparities that we see and for the successes that we see for kids. So when it comes to closing opportunity gaps and when it comes to making sure that every single child has access to a high quality, rigorous, engaging education, it's really the adults that create the condition for that to happen. I think that’s important to remember. We don’t blame families, we don’t blame children. Every child is coming to us with different backgrounds and assets, and like I said, kind of barriers and challenges as well. But this is on us to meet the kids where they are and to make sure we’re providing them with the best possible learning environment that we can.
DM: I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. I’m glad we could get connected.
SG: Absolutely! Thanks Destinee. I hope this was helpful.
Transcript:
Destinee Marking (DM): This is Destinee Marking. The date is Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2018, and the topic is public education before the stronghold of standardized testing, with a specific focus on the “achievement gap”. My interviewee is Stephanie Graff. Ms. Graff, do I have your permission to conduct this interview?
Stephanie Graff (SG): Yes.
DM: All right. So first of all, I want to ask, you are the chief accountability officer at the Minnesota Department of Education. So could you briefly explain what that means and what you do? SG: Absolutely. Thanks for the opportunity to share with you a little bit about myself and some of my thoughts. So yes, I’m the chief accountability officer here at the Minnesota Department of Education. What I do is I, I work closely with a few different areas from a federal standpoint and a state standpoint. I lead and oversee our state and federal accountability system through the Every Student Succeeds Act, which is federal law, and the World’s Best Workforce, which is state law around strategic planning and accountability. I provide, along with a team, support to districts and charter schools across the state on their World’s Best Workforce efforts and their strategic plans and their goals and stakeholder work and engagement and tracking progress toward those goals and a lot of the initiatives and strategies they have in place to close achievement and opportunity gaps and ensure all students are career and college ready. And then, I also oversee more closely with a program in Minnesota called the Achievement and Integration Program, which is a substantial fiscal resource, as well as a really great program in the state that’s been around for a number of years providing resources and support and programming focused on closing academic disparities and focused on creating integrated learning environments for students so that students with different ethnicities and races and different perspectives and backgrounds and socioeconomic statuses and english-learner statuses are collaborating, building relationships and having an opportunity to learn in an integrated environment, so that’s what I do here at the agency. All of it is really under the broad umbrella that’s focused on equity, focused on closing opportunity and achievement gaps and supporting leaders on all levels of the system and stakeholders and community groups and coming together and tackling some of these persistent challenges that we have, to meet the needs of kids.
DM: Awesome. That’s really interesting. Moving on to kind of talking about the achievement gap then, could you describe, first of all, the makeup of Minnesota public schools, or like just in general, the ratio of white to non-white students or English speakers to non-English..?
SG: Yes. Yes, absolutely. So in the state of Minnesota, a state with, oh I think, about a little over 5 million people, we have a little under a million, I think about 900,000 students in pre-K through grade 12 enrolled in public school and charter school in the state of Minnesota, so about 900,000 kids. At this point, in 2018, about two-thirds of our students that we serve in our public education system are white, and about one-third of students are students that identify as students of color or American Indian students. And so, about a third are students that identify as Asian students, as Hawaiian Pacific Islander students, as our African American students, as our Hispanic students or our students that identify as multiracial, right, and so students that would kind of categorize or identify themselves as two or more races. And then, about two percent of our students are actually American Indian students, which we don’t often times lump into our students of color group, based on what we’ve heard from our native populations in the state. So about two percent of our students are native students across the state of Minnesota and really, really have some interesting opportunities to meet the cultural and academic needs of those students as well. So about two-thirds white, about one-third students of color/American Indian students in 2018. Eight percent of our students are English learners and this is has been the fastest growing student population in the state of Minnesota. So about 92 percent of our students come from native English-speaking families. Sixteen percent of our students are students with disabilities, or a little less than 16 percent. So about 85 percent of our students are those that are not a student with a disability. That number has remained fairly stable over time. About 37 percent of our students are students from low-income families and the proxy that we use for that, for our socioeconomic status is really free and reduced-price lunch, so the student is eligible for free or reduced-price lunch, they are meeting a certain family income threshold, and included in that 37 percent of students from low-income families. And about one percent, and we’re really, really excited to be providing a bit more focus and really thinking collectively about strategies for this student population, but one percent of our students are actually students that are experiencing homelessness. You can imagine those students come with their own assets and perspectives and needs and challenges and barriers to learning, and so, it’s important to not forget, it’s just one percent, but it’s one percent too many, and really as educators, we’re really thinking about what we can do to meet the needs of our students that experience homelessness every single day.
DM: For sure, yeah. What do the scores of standardized tests show then when it comes to looking at the results for different demographics of students?
SG: Yeah, well, certainly we know that disparities exist. The academic disparities have existed for some time and they’re persistent. It’s something we grapple with as educators in the system every single day, so disparities between and among student groups certainly are there, and gaps are certainly there. When we look at test results, right, I think it’s really, really important, and this is something that is a bit of a paradigm kind of shift in a way because sometimes we get, in education, so hung up on test results, and on that one summative assessment that one students takes on one day that, again it’s standardized for all kids across the state, and we’re really trying to think about not just achievement gaps, but opportunity gaps. So what kind of access and opportunities to kids have do be successful in their learning? So how can we place test results in a broader context and look at a variety of other data that I’d be happy to get to in this conversation as well. But certainly, I could rattle off some numbers, but certainly we look at reading. Our Hispanic students are at 39 percent proficient, our white students are at 68 percent proficient. When we look at math, our black students at a little over 30 percent proficient in math, our white students are at about 56 percent proficient in math. So certainly we know that there are gaps. We know that there are disparities we’re working to address. Something else I would add here is what we’ve really heard from community members and educators across the state consistently is really the need to think about results, and particularly standardized test results, in that we’re placing a high expectation and a high bar for all students and every single student group, so we’re not always just comparing, like I just compared, for example, Hispanic students’ and white students’ performance, right, but instead what people in Minnesota are really interested in is setting a high bar, a high goal for all; we’ve done that; it’s 85 percent of students proficient is our goal by the year 2025, and saying ‘Where are white students in making progress toward that goal? OK, we have a way to go. White students have to grow.’ and ‘Where are Hispanic students in making progress toward that goal?’ And we know Hispanic students have to grow, and there’s room for improvement. And black students, how much do they have to grow and progress and improve? And our Asian population, right, then our English learners, so really thinking about setting a high bar, high expectation, having high goals for all. We know our white students are not where they need to be in the state. They’re our highest performing, but they’re not the bar, they’re not the benchmark. And we know they need to grow and improve as well. So we have heard from our communities of color in particular saying all student groups should have a high expectation, and we want to look at improvement for all. We don’t want lower expectation to be the white student group. So we talk often about disparities between groups, but I think it’s important to place our successes and our progress and our improvement as an education system and really benchmark that using ambitious, rigorous, high goals for every single student and every single student group.
DM: Sure. When did we really start paying attention to these disparities, or like you’re saying, just students in general not meeting that high mark?
SG: Yeah. I mean I think it’s been at the forefront in minds of educators for a very long time. Probably long before, or definitely long before we were measuring them using statewide standardized accountability assessments. Educators have always known, I believe, that all kids come with different assets, different home life, different background and perspective and needs and challenges and barriers, and so I think those that have been closest to the children have really understood that there are gaps that we as educators have been trying to focus on and address for quite some time. I do think the last 10-15 years or so, probably since the No Child Left Behind Act, what was probably a bit of an impetus or there was just the window of opportunity for this conversation to just be more known probably and more understood. And a part of that is probably because demographics have shifted, so earlier in our conversation, I rattled off some of the current demographics in Minnesota, but those have shifted quite a bit in the last 10 or 15 years. Particularly our growth in our immigrant population. Our English learner students in the state and our students of color that our communities of color are growing in general, so I do think that last 10 or 15 years, the demographics have changed and with sort of this focus on civil rights and equity within the Elementary and Secondary Education Act at the federal level that became the No Child Left Behind Act in 2001, there has been more of an emphasis on people focusing and paying attention on achievement gaps. And I want to add to that, I think we’re getting to the point of including opportunity gaps and access gaps as well in that conversation, so I think now more than ever we’re seeing advocacy groups, I think we’re seeing community organizations, I think we’re seeing policymakers now more than ever really focused on opportunity and achievement gaps. I also think we’re seeing this placed in a broader conversation really with a spotlight on how achievement gaps and educational outcomes go hand in hand with housing access and outcomes, with healthcare access and outcomes, with human services and social services access and outcomes. So that’s really, I think, important too to contextualize this conversation around opportunity and achievement gaps and our education system and really understand the interconnectedness with other types of supports and services that we provide in government. So yeah, I think it’s been around with educator quite a while, but I think it’s risen to the surface in sort of a household conversation and a policymaking conversation more recently in the last 15 years or so.
DM: Sure. And then looking at these gaps over the last couple years, are there certain groups that are closing them, and on the other hand, are there certain gaps that are worsening?
SG: I think that honestly it really, it depends on which area and which group you’re looking at, so it’s hard to just kind of make a blanket statement around that. Certainly we’ve seen many pockets of successes in different areas, different groups. We actually just, six weeks ago on Aug. 30, we released a list of 524 schools in the state that are recognized for success on a variety of indicators, including math and reading test results, consistent attendance, progress for English learners, and as a part of this, we’re really, really able to shine a bright light on where we’re seeing successes for different student groups and where we’re seeing actual disparities close. So at the statewide level, it’s hard to get into some of the nuance and the need for kind of a contextualized conversation about what are the successes and why, really getting to that why piece because in order to see this at a larger scale across the state or across the country, what we really need to do is shine a bright light on where it’s working and then think about how do we scale up and replicate and share practices across district lines. So 29 schools, we’re excited about all of these schools in different ways, but 29 schools in particular were recognized for success in getting really phenomenal progress for English learners and really focus on closing disparities just for English learners and making sure that English learners are making progress in mastering the English language. We’re really focused on learning from these schools and where there are those pockets. Certainly, as I had mentioned, gaps persist; they stick around. In some areas, we’re addressing where disparities are actually widening, and as I’ve mentioned, in a lot of areas we’re celebrating and learning from where those disparities are actually closing.
DM: And you’ve touched on this a little bit over the last couple minutes, but what are some current efforts to improve this issue?
SG: There’s a lot. So I actually would start with- we put together, along with stakeholders over the last two and a half years or so, what we’re calling “commitments to equity.” I really, really believe that equity-focused leadership and equity-focused action are going to drive change in the system as long as we have them at all levels and as long as it is intentional. So I would start with just a simple, not simple I guess, just with a focus and a commitment to equity, and setting and prioritizing equity and setting and communicating that vision as loud and as often as possible and making sure that we’re setting high targets and high outcomes for all students. This goes back to my comments earlier about making sure we’re setting a high bar for every single student group. So I would start with just prioritizing equity. Then I would touch on a few other areas. One, focusing on leaders and building the skills and mindsets and capacity for leaders to lead really complex education systems that are inclusive, that are culturally appropriate and that empower and give educators at all levels of the system the development and support they need. So really focusing on leadership, I think is so critical. And then getting into making sure every child has an excellent teacher, so where are we, thinking about other data beyond test scores, where are we seeing gaps in which students have the same access to experienced teachers that are teaching within their licensure that are deemed effective when we look at evaluation and development results. So making sure that every single child has a really great teacher in front of them, I feel like is just critical to moving toward closing these disparities. We have some efforts in that area for sure. Something we really focus on too is empowering communities as partners and bringing families to the table, community partners to the table to really help come up with solutions, and making sure that people feel welcome and a part of decision making as that the answers don’t lie just within the K12 education system, but the answers and the best solutions for kids are really going to come when we all roll up our sleeves and come to the table and have all hands on deck and include the voices that are not always a part of the conversation, and that includes a variety of stakeholders, but I would just call out, because I think it’s important, includes tribes to support our native students and American Indian families as well are some that have been historically left out of the conversation, so really being intentionally about bringing those right people to the table. Certainly allocation of resources is a huge equity issue- making sure that our underserved students are getting the resources and support that they need, and sometimes reallocating resources and making sure that those kids that need that help the most are getting it and the funding follows where the gaps are. The last I would probably add, and I could go on with a lot of the strategies that we have focused on, but another we have really focused on is culture and climate in schools. So we talk a lot about the academic needs of kids, and we talk a lot about the math skills and the literacy skills at a young age and the career and college readiness programming and courses and all of the really good academic work, but there’s also a lot of work on our end being done around culture and climate and kind of the conditions for learning. In particular, the social emotional needs of kids now more than ever and building up social emotional skills for those students to be ready to learn and able to learn and most successful in their educational experience. So I would also callout that we have a whole division here focused on conditions for learning and creating safe and engaging learning environments for kids. Those are a few of the strategies that we focus on and will continue to focus on here at the agency in our support for schools and districts and families and communities.
DM: Lastly, since a lot of people I’m in class with are probably going to be doing their projects based out of Kentucky, I was wondering if you could answer how does Minnesota compare to the rest of the country when it comes to standardized test scores or opportunity and achievement gaps?
SG: I wish I had the data in front of me. I will say, we are often times top in the nation when it comes to ACT, the NAEP, which is the National Assessment for Educational Progress, and graduation rates when we look overall at all students, and definitely when we look at our white students. Where we lag is with our American Indian population and our black students in particular, and we’ve made some improvement on sort of national ratings and things in recent years, particularly on the NAEP, but certainly, we have very, very high performers in the state of Minnesota, and we have to really remember to not hang our hat on our more affluent white students, because they really do outperform the nation, because we have other students that, while they’re showing improvement and progressing, they’re, in some areas, we’re not even middle of the pack looking across state lines. So certainly work to do, but I don’t have the numbers in front of me, I wish I did on ACT and NAEP and graduation rates were fairly high as well when we look across state lines.
DM: Well those are all the questions I had planned, but if you have anything else you’d like to add, I’m sure you have stuff I didn’t touch on, so you can go ahead and bring anything up that you’d like to.
SG: I don’t know. I feel like these were all good questions. I will say there was one question that you had passed along and I have like a succinct kind of response to it, but it was who kind of or what can be held accountable for the achievement gap. I kind of liked that one and in my head was kind of, I don’t have a long answer, but I just think it’s important to say, adults and not kids. I think adults are the ones that are responsible and accountable for the disparities that we see and for the successes that we see for kids. So when it comes to closing opportunity gaps and when it comes to making sure that every single child has access to a high quality, rigorous, engaging education, it's really the adults that create the condition for that to happen. I think that’s important to remember. We don’t blame families, we don’t blame children. Every child is coming to us with different backgrounds and assets, and like I said, kind of barriers and challenges as well. But this is on us to meet the kids where they are and to make sure we’re providing them with the best possible learning environment that we can.
DM: I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. I’m glad we could get connected.
SG: Absolutely! Thanks Destinee. I hope this was helpful.